Dice Setting/Dice Control

[theotherone]

What is your opinion on 'setting' the dice at the craps table when you shoot and trying to use a controlled throw in an effort to have some control over the dice?

Craps is by far my favorite game and any advantage I can get, I will take!

I see some people shoot several throws by just effortlessly throwing the dice, but I have seen some with a method of throwing the dice and also do very well.

What do you think?

[clientele]

ive heard it works and with all the books written about it i guess alot of ppl believe in it. if u win money it works and if u lose it dont. in the end though i would rather have the shooter throw this way just because it seems like they care more. i really dont think it makes a difference but i think the slight pause is good. gives u a sec to regroup place some more bets and it just doesnt look careless.

[WiscoBrad]

I always set my dice. Not because it affects my throw, just because I feel its bad luck not to. Kind of like betting the don't pass line.

[Sidekicknicholas]

Everyone I see set the dice does just as well as anyone who tosses them.

Its a mental thing more than real results... why do you think the casino makes you hit the back wall full of little pyramids?... so you have no control.

[Sidekicknicholas]

.... with that, I always bet Don't Pass and Pass on the come out roll (can't win, but can only lose on a 12).... once the point is set, I will bet Don't Pass odds if the point is 4,5,9,10... if it is 6 or 8, I do nothing, break even, and wait for a 4,5,9,10 to bet. 25+ casino trips and every single time I've left a winner

[IRockNvegas]

There's a good craps topic in this section

[theotherone]

I think it's always interesting to see tge strategies ppl use while setting.

One time in Tunica a guy would set the dice on the felt and rub his hand on the felt behind them for a few seconds then throw.

I laughed at first but after he rolled about 25 straight I wished i had bet much much more on him!

The pyramids on the back wall are called the "dice randomizers". Dice control helps to minimize their effect. Not an exact science but never hurts to try.

[WiscoBrad]

@SidekickNicholas: Thats a very interesting method. I'm definitely not saying that don't pass doesn't pay off, as it most certainly does. I'm just saying that some folks consider it bad luck. However, I may try your method next time I'm up at Ho-Chunk to see how it goes. Sounds pretty solid!

It's kind of amusing what some people will do for 'good luck'. I had friends that used to go to the local NA casino. They would walk in the same door, go straight to the mens room and use the same urinal, play the same spots on the same tables, etc every weekend. It worked for them for about a month and they swore they were on to something. Then they started to hemmorage $$ at the craps tables. They decided that luck was just that, luck, and it didn't really matter what door they used or which urinal they pissed it.

[Sidekicknicholas]

I'm just saying that some folks consider it bad luck. However, I may try your method next time I'm up at Ho-Chunk to see how it goes.

If I'm betting don't pass, least there is a winner on every point - and its not the house... no bad juju there.
I've gotten dirty looks from people when I lay down a bunch of money "against" them, but hey, I'll take math over luck any day.

[clientele]

.... with that, I always bet Don't Pass and Pass on the come out roll (can't win, but can only lose on a 12).... once the point is set, I will bet Don't Pass odds if the point is 4,5,9,10... if it is 6 or 8, I do nothing, break even, and wait for a 4,5,9,10 to bet. 25+ casino trips and every single time I've left a winner

25 plus winning trips is dominant....u deviate from this strategy at all?

[Sidekicknicholas]

25 plus winning trips is dominant....u deviate from this strategy at all?

No. I have self control like you wouldn't believe... even if a shooter hits three 5s in a row, I'll stick to it. Or if every person sets a point and 7s-out for 2 hours straight, the point goes to 6/8... I do not bet.

... I'll stray from the "system" only if I'm ready to leave and have some random chips over what I'm happy with.
Lets say my seed money was $100, I've got $235 in chips... I'll color up $200, take $10 and tip out, then take the $20 left over and make some of the "sucker" bets or something that is actually a gamble. That way I either make a lot lot lot of money quick, or I can leave.

[clientele]

25 plus winning trips is dominant....u deviate from this strategy at all?

No. I have self control like you wouldn't believe... even if a shooter hits three 5s in a row, I'll stick to it. Or if every person sets a point and 7s-out for 2 hours straight, the point goes to 6/8... I do not bet.

... I'll stray from the "system" only if I'm ready to leave and have some random chips over what I'm happy with.
Lets say my seed money was $100, I've got $235 in chips... I'll color up $200, take $10 and tip out, then take the $20 left over and make some of the "sucker" bets or something that is actually a gamble. That way I either make a lot lot lot of money quick, or I can leave.

ahhhhh self control...thats what im missing!!!..good system brro...im glad ure killin em with it

[theotherone]

25 plus winning trips is dominant....u deviate from this strategy at all?

No. I have self control like you wouldn't believe... even if a shooter hits three 5s in a row, I'll stick to it. Or if every person sets a point and 7s-out for 2 hours straight, the point goes to 6/8... I do not bet.

... I'll stray from the "system" only if I'm ready to leave and have some random chips over what I'm happy with.
Lets say my seed money was $100, I've got $235 in chips... I'll color up $200, take $10 and tip out, then take the $20 left over and make some of the "sucker" bets or something that is actually a gamble. That way I either make a lot lot lot of money quick, or I can leave.

Do you also hold to this if the table is super hot and a roller has been going for over 20 or 30 minutes?

I may give this a shot next time I'm there.

I have also heard of the 'Iron Cross' method, I believe it is called, where you bet pass, field and 568. This way you get paid on anything except for 'the-number-who-shall-not-be-named'

[Sidekicknicholas]

This way you get paid on anything except for 'the-number-who-shall-not-be-named'

Problem with that, and I'll say it... the 7 comes, and it comes a lot... one out of every 6 tosses should be a 7.... then you lose it all.

My method is awesome if you want to kills some time and score free drinks. Cocktail waitresses hit the table games a lot... especially a busy craps table, if I'm betting a way that means I only lose money on 12s on the come out roll, that means I'm not losing much if anything while getting a LOT of free drinks.

Here is how I justify my strategy.

$5 pass and $5 don't pass -Any number is break even except 12 (only on come out roll) - then I lose $5.
12 has a 1-36 chance to come.
... on average there are 102 rolls per hour, 30% are "come-out" rolls - so about 30 per hour.
... that means on average, about every 71 minutes I lose $10 because of the 36 come out edge. This gives the house a 2.6% edge on the come out.

Once I survive the come out the house edge is 0% by only playing odds bets. Cannot beat that.... anywhere. Beats odds in Vegas. also looking at this:

Dice Roll Possible Dice Combinations
2 1-1
3 1-2, 2-1
4 1-3, 2-2, 3-1
5 1-4, 2-3, 3-2, 4-1
6 1-5, 2-4, 3-3, 4-2, 5-1
7 1-6, 2-5, 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, 6-1
8 2-6, 3-5, 4-4, 5-3, 6-2
9 3-6, 4-5, 5-4, 6-3
10 4-6, 5-5, 6-4
11 5-6, 6-5
12 6-6
... once that point is out, I like my 7s over anything else... it just makes sense to bet Don't Pass to me. Some people argue since on a 4/10 you have to bet 2 to win 1, they think its stupid. But each any everything throw you have a 2 to 1 chance of 7 over 4/10... 0%, but I look at it as like this:
Average number of throws to hit a point or 7-out is like 3.83 (lets say 4)
Chance of throwing 4 times without hitting a 7: 48% (over 50% of the time a 7 hits within 4 throws)
Chance of throwing 4 times without hitting a 4/10: 70%... so only 30% of the time that will hit within 4 throws.... much less than the 7. I like the odds.

[theotherone]

This way you get paid on anything except for 'the-number-who-shall-not-be-named'

Problem with that, and I'll say it... the 7 comes, and it comes a lot... one out of every 6 tosses should be a 7.... then you lose it all.

My method is awesome if you want to kills some time and score free drinks. Cocktail waitresses hit the table games a lot... especially a busy craps table, if I'm betting a way that means I only lose money on 12s on the come out roll, that means I'm not losing much if anything while getting a LOT of free drinks.

Here is how I justify my strategy.

$5 pass and $5 don't pass -Any number is break even except 12 (only on come out roll) - then I lose $5.
12 has a 1-36 chance to come.
... on average there are 102 rolls per hour, 30% are "come-out" rolls - so about 30 per hour.
... that means on average, about every 71 minutes I lose $10 because of the 36 come out edge. This gives the house a 2.6% edge on the come out.

Once I survive the come out the house edge is 0% by only playing odds bets. Cannot beat that.... anywhere. Beats odds in Vegas. also looking at this:

Dice Roll Possible Dice Combinations
2 1-1
3 1-2, 2-1
4 1-3, 2-2, 3-1
5 1-4, 2-3, 3-2, 4-1
6 1-5, 2-4, 3-3, 4-2, 5-1
7 1-6, 2-5, 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, 6-1
8 2-6, 3-5, 4-4, 5-3, 6-2
9 3-6, 4-5, 5-4, 6-3
10 4-6, 5-5, 6-4
11 5-6, 6-5
12 6-6
... once that point is out, I like my 7s over anything else... it just makes sense to bet Don't Pass to me. Some people argue since on a 4/10 you have to bet 2 to win 1, they think its stupid. But each any everything throw you have a 2 to 1 chance of 7 over 4/10... 0%, but I look at it as like this:
Average number of throws to hit a point or 7-out is like 3.83 (lets say 4)
Chance of throwing 4 times without hitting a 7: 48% (over 50% of the time a 7 hits within 4 throws)
Chance of throwing 4 times without hitting a 4/10: 70%... so only 30% of the time that will hit within 4 throws.... much less than the 7. I like the odds.

This is a decent strategy, and I will give it some thought. But when I play the dark side I just cant get into it. The biggest setback for me is knowing I have to put money down to win less money (if it wins), i.e. betting 2 to win 1.

on the comeout I drop a buck or 2 on the C and E bets which is insurance enough for me to ensure I dont lose my pass line bet (C pays 6, so I gain a buck, and E pays about double that).

But with setting the dice, on average (for me anyway), it shifts the probablity of seeing a 7 every 6 rolls. Just recently when practicing with some dice and a small throwing station I managed to hit 4 points in only 17 throws. this would have scored a nice fire bet at the tables. Last week I threw 33 times before 7-ing out.

I look at it like this: even if one can throw a few more tosses than 6 times before 7ing out, they have more of an edge.